"How the f*ck do I get clients when I'm doing outreach?"
1 Marketing Breakdown: Fishing & The Sales Interview
Morning, young and eager mind.
So I got a Q the other day.
I always talk about how you want to be seen as the Authority figure for a certain problem that your specific niche has.
Part of that means not being an order taker.
Don’t present yourself as a person selling hamburgers, going around asking people if they’d like to buy your burger.
You want the power dynamic to be flipped such that the client seeks to work with you.
So the question I got boiled down to “Yeah but how do you do that when YOU are the one reaching out?”
After yesterday’s monster piece (if you haven’t read it, you’re seriously missing out), I’ll keep it short today.
Step 1. Keep your outreach a bit vague
Instead of saying: I offer XYZ with all these features and benefits, keep it slightly vague.
That way, you’ve got a reason to jump on a call to see if working together makes sense.
As a person selling expertise, it’s unlikely that you know precisely what makes sense for a person you’ve never spoken to.
Even IF you guessed the problem and desired outcome correctly, you still don’t know their budget.
Perhaps they can only afford your eBook or video course, or maybe they’d like to work with you in a 1-1 capacity because they’re seeking results faster.
P.S. I always have to point this out but please don’t copy this messaging verbatim like a dumbass. It’s not even about me. It’s about you. You’re simply not gonna be successful if you’re looking for a formula you can implement while acting brain-dead. If that’s you, unsub and just go get a job being a cog in a machine. Instead, take the overall framework and mold it into something THAT FITS YOU AND YOUR BUSINESS!
Here are the core elements to include in “bait” (which is an outreach message during fishing):
Intro
Positioning statement
CTA
Here’s the full framework with optional extras:
Intro (Hey name)
Personalized line (I loved your thread on X. I implemented it on Wednesday and got results Y)
Positioning statement (I help X with Y.)
CTA (Is that something you’d be interested in?)
Pre-empt assholery (Hope you’re having a lovely day and apologies if this isn’t a good fit! Some people are really mean and calling yourself out before they can takes the wind outta their sails.)
Step 2. Jump on a sales INTERVIEW
If they’re interested, the next step is to schedule a call.
But you really wanna think about it in terms of a sales interview, not a presentation, or a sales call.
Again, you’re not selling hamburgers so don’t try to dazzle them.
You’re a doctor and you’re trying to determine whether you and this patient are a good fit.
You’re interviewing THEM just as much as they’re interviewing you.
Think of yourself as a software engineer who’s been working at various FAANG companies for the past 15 years. And now a company is hitting you up with a potentially better offer.
You’d be interviewing them just as much as they’d be interviewing you because you don’t NEED to work there. You’re not dependent on them.
Step 3. Answer these questions
During the call, figure this out:
Where are they right now? What’s their current situation like?
Where do they wanna go? What’s their desired outcome? What does a homerun look like? How will the both of you know that you knocked it out of the park?
Are you confident you can get them that result?
Are they confident you can get them that result?
Do you like them? Would you enjoy grabbing a drink and hanging out with them for an evening? (If not, don’t take the work.)
Can they afford you?
Can they afford NOT to work with you?
Is it important enough to get started today or is it more of a nice to have?
Some black belt BJJ tips
Shift your thinking from trying to convince them to work with you to seeing if you guys are a good fit. In the former frame, you’d ignore red flags. In the latter frame, those red flags would disqualify the prospect. Remember that you’re trying to rig the game in your favor by cheating and setting yourself up for success. Make your life easy by only accepting dream clients.
Never get drawn into a conversation about features. Mention the features, sure. But don’t make that the entire conversation. Always keep the core focus of the convo on the desired outcome. Talk about what it would be worth to them to go to the beach and not be embarrassed about their body instead of all the ab crunches they’ll do and their meal plan. Remember my maxim: sushi is more than cold, dead fish.
If you do get sucked into that, it means you’re framing yourself as a hamburger seller. That’ll also negatively affect the price you can charge. If you frame it around the desired outcome your price can be a percentage of the value which is much higher!
At the end of the interview, if y’all are a good fit always ask these 3 questions
Based on this conversation, are you confident that I can help you get the results you’re looking for? (Even better if you actually call out that specific result. E.g. are you confident that I can help you look jacked when you’re walking on the beach this summer?)
Is this/are any of these options within your price range?
Are you totally opposed to moving forward today?
I learned this from FBI hostage negotiator Chris Voss. If you ask a question where you’re looking for a yes, people tend to get defensive. Instead, flip the question so you’re looking for a no. Which is what I did here.
If they need to think about it don’t just say “ktnxbye.” Instead, say this:
I understand. Typically when people say that they either have a specific question or they’re too polite to just say no. If you already know it’s a no, please tell me so I won’t annoy you by following up. And if you’ve got a question, please ask me so I can clear it up.
If they still need to think about it ask them how long. If they say 3 days, tell them you’ll follow up in 3 days to see if they’re ready to move forward.
In conclusion
Everything I typed out today seems super easy.
It’s just like when you’re in uni and your math teacher explains a proof. It looks so obvious that you roll your eyes. But when you’re taking the exam and can’t even remember the first step, you realize it actually wasn’t that simple at all.
So don’t fall for the tool bias. Just cuz all of this stuff LOOKS easy doesn’t mean it IS easy. I’ve developed this over thousands of calls, spending hundreds of hours.
But also, don’t get overwhelmed. Just bookmark this and implement just ONE thing.
When you’re doing that effortlessly, implement one more thing.
And rinse-repeat until you’re doing everything here.
Lastly, feel free to adjust this to your own situation but do give it a little time. If something isn’t working, in the beginning, it’s more likely the problem is your inexperience rather than your situation being unique.
That’s it :)
Reply if you’ve got questions.
See you tomorrow.
RJY
Chop wood. Carry water.